Go With the Flo

[Intro music plays]

Folarin Okulaja: All right, everybody. Welcome to the first episode, season two, Go With the Flo. Very excited to be here, I’ve got a very special guest in the building. Wait, Mohammad, do you go by Mo or Mohammad?

Mohamad Hamza: Well, actually, my passport name is Mohammad Hamza, but most people just call me Mo.

F: Okay, gotcha. So Mo was in the Olympics this summer, which is pretty cool. Also the Olympics in 2016, which we will get a lot into. But the way that I've always started episodes last season is just asking people, or my guests, where they're from, stuff they do on campus, major, just general like background information.

M: Well, where I'm from is Egypt. I was born in Houston, Texas. But lately, I've been living in Egypt for like, the past three years. Obviously, with the online thing and stuff. So I just took a gap year, two years ago, that's when I, like, moved back with my family to Egypt. Around campus, I'm in the fencing team, and I'm studying MAE.

F: Nice. And so you took it you actually took your gap year before COVID?

M: Yeah.

F: Okay. And what was the reason for that?

M: Just to, like, so I made, like a, quote, unquote, like pact with my team at the time, that we just drop everything for a year so we could focus on qualifying for Tokyo, pretty much and then making the most out of it, because we were expecting that we probably qualify. You know, we gotta like, maintain our training and our ranking and everything, but because we knew we had a good shot at it, we also wanted to push ourselves so we could actually accomplish something at Tokyo.

F: Gotcha. And so how big was the group of you that decided to do that? And were there other college students? Or would you say you were probably making the biggest sacrifice as a college student just dropping everything?

M: There was one other college student, he's a senior, and has a semester left. He goes to Penn State, his name is also Mohammad. Yeah, the other two were in their 30s and late 20s. So they already had jobs, or were just coaching fencers and trying to learn how to become coaches. So I feel like yeah, I feel like giving up a year of your, like school year, pretty much like school career, putting a pause to that's kind of, it’s a sizable sacrifice, but also, like, just telling your job, like, I'm not going to show up for a year and come back, that's also pretty sizable. Like that has more responsibilities as well.

F: Yeah. And then even, it must be even that much more weird, because when you took the time off, things were relatively normal, pre-pandemic. And then you come back, and it's like, ah, back to back to, back to zoom school!

M: Yeah, being back to zoom was not, not what I expected after a year off.

F: Yeah! But actually, we will get, we will dive way more into fencing and the Olympics in a little bit. But, first I want to actually just speak about being back on campus. So where were you located for the last Zoom semester of the last school year?

M: Back in Egypt

F: Okay, gotcha. So what was that time difference?

M: That was seven hours? And then six hours after daylight savings?

F: Gotcha. So you are probably very happy to be back on campus?

M: Oh very happy, very happy to be back

F: So yeah, first question, just how does it, how does it feel to be back? Do you do things feel pretty normal to you? How would you say you've been the last few days because we are now recording this after we've had our first three days of classes?

M: Yeah. Well, I've been going through our, our fake week, three days. I mean, I've seen like a lot of people. It's kind of weird that like, I have so many friends that I made from freshman year who are now juniors and seniors. Some of them took gap years, some of them didn't. But it's also kind of nice, because it's like a nice icebreaker because they'll introduce me to new people. And so it's not like I'm just like, I've just like surrounded by only people in my year now. Like, I'll get to know people from all other years. And then I'm also on the fencing team, so it makes it easier for me to know some freshmen, and they introduced me to their friends and all, so I feel like the social aspect is fine.

F: Okay! [laughs]

M: Yeah, just it's nice seeing people again, after two and a half years. Yeah. Nice, It’s pretty, pretty convenient, you know, just to be able to just actually have conversations with people like you haven't had with in a while, but like, just to talk about, like, things that you always just had in common before. Yeah, athletically speaking, we don't start our season until November so I'm just like, kind of doing my own preseason. I have a captain this year, so we do have captain's practices, we started those yesterday. So you know, getting the groove of things, back on the Jadwin Gym Princeton fencing area. And then for classes, it's kinda, I mean, I have three labs this semester.

F: So that's, that's way too many labs.

M: Yeah. They kind of what they did was they sent out a bunch of emails over the summer saying, certain classes were canceled, certain classes were moved around. I genuinely don't know why. But that means that they had to shift around a couple of schedules. And now I have three, three labs this semester, and no labs next semester. So it's like, it's a rough balance, but...

F: Yeah, this one might be a little bit more intense. And then next month, it’ll be all chill. It's funny, because I also had a class get canceled, not during the summer, literally, last week, the class I was looking forward to the most got canceled last week. So then I had to scramble and try to find another class. It was in that in that same time zone, and I ended up finding a class called the global history of monsters, which is a class where we're just going to be watching horror movies of that class. And I actually hate horror movies. Like I'm actually terrified. So it's gonna be interesting, because the class is either going to get me over that fear of horror movies, or I'm just going to be like, terrified everywhere I go this semester. So I'm in a single right now, so who knows? It could go one one of two different ways. But on two quick things that you mentioned: one, you said that you feel like socially, you're able to meet people in a lot more grades now that we're back?

M: Yeah, I feel like when I was a freshman, I literally only knew other freshmen. And then through athletics, I would get to know like my seniors, juniors, sophomores, and every once in a while they’d introduced me to their friends. Yeah, like, I feel like now because everyone has this thing in common where we've all either took a gap year, or did a year online. So we're like, we're just eager to just make more friends just to meet new people. Like, see new faces and attach their names together, you know, I mean, and then get to know them over a while. I have this issue, not what I think it's an issue with most people is like you meet someone for the first time, but they were wearing a mask. They take off their mask, you have no idea who they are. And you're like, you're super embarrassed. You're like, I feel like I should know you!

F: Oh, yeah, the amount of instances of – I was playing ping pong in Frist the other day. And this girl walked by who looked like one of my good friends I hadn't seen in a year and a half. And I paused and I looked at her and she looked at me until when we stared each other down for like five seconds. Eventually, I pulled my mask down. She does the same and itt just was not who either of us thought it was — like oh, anyway. Sorry about that! Keep walking. So the masks definitely do not help with recognizing people.

M: Yeah, um, because I feel like, if you're outside or like in an eating club, right, dinner, stuff like that, I think like, eventually you'll get to know them. But if you're in classes, it might be a bit rough. Yeah, like, especially if you're in like, like for me like for BSE, I have to take random humanities classes. Seven of them for distribution, like requirements. So it's like, I feel like I'm the only one there. But then halfway through like a class I'll look across, and I'll be like, “Is that who I think it is?” oh, I think, okay, can we be like buddies in this class? Yeah.

F: And you mentioned eating clubs, which is something I want to delve into a little bit later. But just one quick thing, I also, it's been weird — how kind of like you mentioned, there's people you haven't seen in two and a half years. I didn't do the gap, so for me, it's one and a half years, which I don't know what other group of college students in the history of college can say they had to go a year and a half without seeing some of their closest friends. That's just one of those where it's pretty long. But yeah, one of those weird pandemic things, yeah, usually it would be like the summer and then maybe if they go abroad, like exactly six, six months, at most, but now it's literally like a year and a half where some of my closest friends who I would text literally like every day, one person might have texted in a group chat every day, didn't see him in a year and a half. I saw him in Dillon a few days ago. So it's, it's been insane. But also for me. I think that socially I, because I left as a sophomore, sophomore spring, and that was I think sophomore year, when I just joined an eating club, was involved in some other stuff that helped me get to know upperclassmen, that was a point where I feel like I knew people who were freshmen. Obviously, know sophomores, then knew a bunch of upperclassmen. But now that we've come back, only know seniors and juniors. I see so many faces walking around, I'm like, “Who? Who are you? What is going on?” So it's kind of interesting that we kind of have it flipped, where it's like, you feel like you know more people now and you're able to meet more people. And now I'm like, I know juniors and seniors and everyone else is like, will I meet you, probably not but if I do cool.

M: Yeah, fair enough. I feel like being on the like, the team just kind of helps me know more sophomores and freshmen. We also have, we technically have like two classes of freshmen. Like because the sophomores kind of kind of never been on campus like completely and then they've never been in like a team like, at all. So it's like, just having them around. Kind of makes it easier for me to meet people in their grade, but then like my class of 23 now, it's like all people either met online or just haven't seen yet because they weren't in MAE and I just never shared a class with them. But I know most of the seniors, so it's like, I feel like I should be there with them. But they're all mourning about having a year left. And I'm like, I have two, but like you’ll be gone after that! So what am I supposed to do?

F: Yeah, now you should definitely be happy you have two years left. That's another thing — this, this first week has been really fun. Everything has been a lot, lot more promising than I expected. And at the same time, I'm, on one hand, I'm very happy. But on the other hand, I'm like, damn, we missed out on this for a whole year. This is what we're supposed to be doing, making all these memories, but we weren't able to. So it's hard not to focus on what could have been. And it's hard to just be like, okay, now we have this time that we just need to soak it all in. But that feeling of like regret keeps creeping into my mind. Like what could have been, we could have been doing so much on this campus having so much fun meeting so many cool people, but yet, the pandemic had to ruin a lot for a lot of people, but, it is what it is. Yeah. But um, so you mentioned eating clubs. Are you in an eating club?

M: Yeah, I'm in TI [Tiger Inn] this year.

F: Okay. Nice. Nice, nice. What are your thoughts on the clubs — and I'm in Ivy, by the way — but what are your thoughts on the clubs being members only up until the 16th? So I know that's something that's been controversial for both people in the clubs and people not in the clubs.

M: Yeah, I know. Like, the culture is like for people to just, like, go on the street regularly, like, from day one, pretty much. When I was a freshman, I barely went out, like, I was always either at tournaments or, or just paying attention to my classes or whatever or making up a bunch of classes because I missed a ton. But yeah, I know that that's like, the whole Princeton culture and like a thing here. So it kinda does, like mess up the whole, like the social kind of mixing, that usually happens at the beginning of the year. So I'd say, I'd say like, I mean, I understand why it's controversial. But I also understand why like, you got to take like, the nice and easy steps first, before you just start, like giving everyone all permission and access, because if it goes wrong at the beginning, there's no way you can go back. But if it's like, you ease your way into like events and stuff, I feel like it'd be easier. Maybe if a situation or like, God forbid, a COVID outbreak or something happens, it might be easier to like, check how it works out with members only with smaller crowds, or smaller groupings together. And then it's just like everyone.

F: Yeah, and I get that, for sure. And even I see both sides of it. I see it from the perspective of people who aren't in clubs who are saying that the clubs are the only, well not the only, but on our campus, that is the main way of socializing and the main social scene. And we're kind of preventing that whole group of people from being able to access that. But on the other hand, as someone who joined and got kicked off campus like a few weeks later, and hasn't really got spent much time in the club, selflessly, I'm like, I am not mad at the fact that we have these few weeks to be able to build a type of club community that we were supposed to be building over the last year. And even in this first week, I've been able to see that, oh, yeah, we are making such progress to be able to become one one solid group. Like the amount of time I spent in Ivy is just like, it's absurd. I probably spend way too much time there, like no my friends who are officers, every time they come downstairs and they see me there, they're like, “do you think you live here or something?” I'm like, No, but you know, we pay these dues, I've missed out on all this time, I'm gonna be in the building a lot more this year than I probably should be. So I get it. And hopefully, in a few weeks, clubs will open up to the rest of the Street, and then everyone can finally get involved. And then this will just be a story of the past. But for now, I am enjoying the fact that I'm just getting to hang out my friends make up for lost time, eat meals, do all that fun stuff that that we haven't been able to do over over the last year and a half.

M: Yeah, it makes it easier to get to know everyone who's like actually a member in your club before you just lose track of them.

F: Exactly, exactly, exactly. Because when it's you know, most together hanging out in the building members, all those nighttime members not so you know, everyone you're seeing is also in the club. Yeah, it helps. It does help to build that sense of community. So yeah, then things will be okay, and come October when things open up,

M: Oh, no one’s gonna remember what happened. Just gotta be excited about what's gonna happen in the future.

F: Exactly. In both classes of freshmen, they’ll be going to their Charter Fridays, and Colonial Fridays, and having all that fun, and there'll be like yeah, so this will all be a thing of the past. But um, so kind of moving back to talking about this school year a little bit. What would you say you're probably most excited for?

M: In-person classes. Yeah, it's something you can't take for granted until you go through a whole year of Zoom University. But yeah, just being able to interact with like, your friends or students just left and right. If you have a question or anything instead of just staying stuck and just being afraid of like unmuting yourself, and being the one person who just disrupts the entire class. Yeah, teachers always I have a feeling like teachers always like, oh, just interrupt me whenever and stuff. But I feel like it really just just like, cuts off the flow. Yeah, of teaching and everything. So it's easier for that. And then also like study groups will be a lot easier to manage. Wi-Fi won't be an issue. You can actually work in person, common rooms or whatever. Yeah, just generally being back. I mean, the one thing I liked about Zoom, like, online stuff that we did last year was like the accessibility of professors and like office hours. All you have to do is just sit in a chair, pull up your laptop and just press a link and you're done. Instead of, like, I remember freshman year, I just didn't want to go, TAs or office hours, just because like, I gotta bike all the way down, like, come on. That's not something I want to do. And it's like, it's typically at night. So it's after you've had your long day of classes and your dinner and your training and all that. So you're just tired, you just don't want to go anywhere.

F: Honestly, you're right. And that is one of those things that honestly, I feel like should be able to, should stick going forward because I'm getting that very similar, similarly to you going to because I freshman year, I started off pre-med engineering. So a lot of STEM classes. I lived in Holder freshman and sophomore year. So a lot of my classes were all the way down by like, Fine, Frick just very far away. And for physics, I hate physics, I just have to, every time physics comes up, I need to put that onto the universe that physics single, single handedly ruined my freshman year.

M: I had that thing with chemistry, because I love physics, math, anything. Anything else like that has to do with engineering, fine, but chemistry I just can’t.

F: That that's interesting, because for me out of physics, chem, bio, it is chem, bio, literally anything else, and then physics. So that's interesting. But yeah, I would always because for whatever reason, the study sessions for physics would be on Sunday night. And on a Sunday night, I'm not trying to go all the way across campus to do the subject that I hate, and I'm not very good at, right before I start my week of classes. So if something like that was on, was online on Zoom even, definitely.

M: Okay, you instantly join it just a lot more like easier just to access and yeah, you'd use it more frequently, which would help you as a student as well.

F: Yeah. So honestly, whoever's listening, might be a professor, President eisgruber. I know President Eisgruber, you've been on the podcast, I would like to think that you're listening to every each and every single word that I say, this is a recommendation coming straight from the students. Yeah, I also, back to what you were saying about looking forward to in person classes. I didn't realize how I kind of forgotten how to be a student again, in the midst of all other people. Because on Zoom, you're in class on just by yourself, in your room. And the funniest thing to me was I in one of my classes this week, I I think my note taking skills are kind of, they've declined a lot. So I’m sitting in lecture, everyone had their notes at the professor, the professor was saying something, said something and everyone's are like furiously typing. I was like, Oh, God, maybe I should be typing too. And I was like, Oh, snap, what are they saying? Try to keep up. So just that sort of little, little things that you didn't have to worry about in the past that it's not like, okay, we're back, I'd have to learn how to be in an academic setting all over again.

M: You get those cues and you just like you start panicking, like what what is it that I should be writing?

F: That's the thing, that's the thing.

M: That's me in almost every humanities class, I just like I don't know what's important. What's not. I'm just taking this because I have to at this point, yeah,

F: That's the thing that, yeah, but I, honestly, I love school. I should know, I love learning. Don’t love, don't love like classes, all the other stuff.

M: It's great when you can learn something and apply it right away. Or even like later on in the semester, like you get that, that feeling of accomplishment, like, Okay, I'm like progressing as a human being in general. But then yeah, the whole thing about when you focus too much on grades, and you focus too much on assignments and due dates, like you kind of your passion for just learning kind of just dies down.

F: Exactly, exactly. So Eisgruber, there's another suggestion, just get rid of it. We already made it to Princeton, you know, we're okay. We're so competent, you could get rid of the grading. But even just real quickly on that too. I maintain strongly that over my summers, I've learned significantly more that I have during my time here. So freshman summer, I went to Kenya for two months teaching in a few schools there. Fantastic experience, I have to get someone from that trip on here so we can really delve into that one. And then last summer I was in New York City doing a financial internship where again, nine week program were significantly more like professional personal development skills, yeah, and I do sitting in the classroom, but

M: Yeah, but you always learn more in the field and you then you would like just learning the theory, like theoretical stuff. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like on the note of like grades and stuff, if you really like learning and everything, this doesn't apply to all classes, all the stress. Some professors just give horrible exams that don't test anything that you just learned. But like, I mean, if you really like it and you study and you like pay attention, you typically do well, like those go hand in hand.

F: Physics from freshman year would like to disagree with you.

M: Well, I said, Yeah, there's definitely certain classes where the professors just really have one out for you. I don't know why their previous reviews are like “the classes so easy” to like, “Easy? I'll show you.” That always always happens.

F: Alright, and so another question, what would you say is one thing that you were not able to do pre-pandemic, like on campus, whether that’s go to sports game dance show, to a club, what is something that you were not able to do pre-COVID that now that we're back and you want to take full advantage of Princeton again, you're going like, “Okay, this is something that I'm definitely going to take advantage of this year”.

M: Sounds kinda cliche, just to expand my wings a little bit. Like, just be more out there. Talk to people in general, I'm a very introverted individual. My freshman year, I mean, everyone who knows me will tell you, I barely went out, I was always just competitions, I come back a lot of work to do. And whenever I did have free time, I just use that as like a breather. Oh, like, I had a single room as well. So it really gave me no incentive to go out. Like, hey, I'm just gonna sit in this room, watch a couple shows, watch, I don't know, like a TED talk or whatever. Just anything that, just anything to get my mind off, like, just everything that I had to do. The nice thing is that, and this would have happened anyways if it wasn't for the pandemic, but I just aged out of juniors, since I'm 20. Now, so I have half as many tournaments, like international tournaments, to only have one a month with the exception of like, a couple months here and there. Whereas my freshman year, I literally had a tournament every other week, and in between, I would have a college meet. So,

F: That is excessive, on top of being a student also?

M: Yeah, my academic advisor told me I missed a third of school freshman year. Yeah, I don't know how I got through that.

F: But I, they make an exception?

M: Yeah. But like I was, I've always been like, it's like when you have a routine of just like missing stuff, working ahead, getting a schedule, doing all that, like when professors see that you're on top of stuff, they really don't care how many times you miss class. As long as you're not like getting like heavily like setback or something.

F: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And honestly, this is the unsolicited advice that I'm gonna give you after saying that you just used to sit in your room and not do much. Every, I truly want every single person on this campus to, yes, school is important. Do your homework, get good grades and all that fun stuff. We're all at Princeton. Yeah, yeah yeah. But there's so much more out there. And so many more people to meet and so many more experiences to have that are outside the classroom, go to that dance show, go to that sports game, go to that night out on the street, go do all these different things that you wouldn't otherwise do. Because those are the memories you're actually going to have for the rest of your life. I will not remember, okay, this is okay, so I, I've taken some cool classes, I don't want to make it sound like I hate every single class that I take, I have to take some cool classes. But most of my favorite memories from the first two years in this last week, and I know for sure over these next year are things that I've done outside the classroom. So, if you're freshmen listening, and you're sitting and you're single, and you might be a little introverted also, that is all great, but just put yourself out there a little bit and I promise you, it'll pay off and you'll get the most out of this university. Yeah, so that is yes. The advice no one asked for but I'm going to give.

M: No that's important advice. I mean, I feel like like time flies, to be honest, I think yeah, the whole pandemic thing having a year online kind of gave me a different outlook on how actually important it is to just be, not extra social, but just be social, like go out there like introduce yourself, talk, talk to people listen to their backgrounds, their stories, like what they're interested in, what what they plan on doing and all that stuff. After a while, like you said, it pays off and also like college is pretty much the only time, especially if you're an international student. I mean, I'm not an international student, but like, because now I live in Egypt. So it's like the it's very different in Egypt like you won't have everything this close together. You won't have this many like people living in one region, you won't have eating clubs, and like you just won't have all these like mixes between athletics, academics, and like social life like all in one. So when you like graduate and you just start your like adult life pretty much if you're working a job nine to five or whatever it is that you do.

F: Nine to five would be fantastic.

M: Yeah! You won't you just you genuinely won't find like the same kind of just vibes and environment. Pretty much, you just take advantage of the four years for us. It's for, like two years or three years on campus?

F: I yeah, it's I mean, when it's all said and done, it's gonna be two and a half.

M: Exactly. Take advantage of it before it might go away again.

F: Yeah. That's it. That's it again, I'm gonna cuz you asked me why I started the podcast right before we started right now answer that in a second. But again, like you said, it is insane to me that I am now in my last year because like I said, the time has flown by. And when it's all said and done, I'm only gonna have had two and a half years of a regular college, which is so sad to me. Because college is, I came in from day one, knowing that this was going to be such a unique four years to have a lot of fun, meet a lot of people before you get out into the real world. And after the summer boy, did I get a glimpse of the real world. And ... it's not college! And so to answer your question about why I started the podcast, it speaks to exactly what you said, there's a lot of great people on this campus that I want to meet. And I want to hear the backgrounds, want to have great conversations with and I was like, I think other people should get to hear these conversations as well. And I was like, Oh, let me let me start this podcast. And this episode I'm really happy about because you're the first guest I've had on that I didn't know previously. So this is actually the first time we're meeting a person having a conversation. And that's even me just putting myself out there a little bit more. Because it would be easy to just get all my friends on here. have conversations with people that I speak to every day, which I will still keep doing this will love my friends want to get them on here, but at the same time, want to expand expand my horizons a little bit. So,

M: yeah, that's a great idea. I mean, I like I appreciate that you've, you've gone to like, lengths and depths like set all this up and like, get the ball rolling on on like just getting people to want to interact more in general. And also, I mean, you can only hear voices but the setup here is legendary, it’s super cool.

F: Insane setup! A lot of which you saw, thank you.

M: A lot of effort as well, a round of applause my guy

F: Thank you. Thank you saw the firsthand effort to make all this fancy equipment work. Yeah, I was getting much that at the start. I am honestly maybe I'll clip this and put it at the start. But I am now like a part of the ‘Prince’ podcast section, which is why I get access to all this cool equipment. And so last year, I recorded everything by myself in my dorm. Yeah, but now I get to use their studio, the equipment. So yes, like Mo just mentioned, we are sitting in this dope podcast studio that I'm very excited to use because all my favorite podcasts look just like this sitting on the couch.

M: Yeah, exactly. You gotta, you got to be like them.

F: Like, I feel I feel like a professional! Yeah, yeah. So now let's get into fencing in the Olympics, which right? Very, very, very cool. For us very basic question: The different types of fencing, I know you are foil correct? What are the different types of fencing and what like is what differentiates them because I, to me, it all just looks like you know, like stabbing people in the chest.

M: Yeah, there's a lot of rules that go into each of the types but I’ll try to keep it as basic as possible. You’ve got foil, epee and sabre. Foil and epee, you hit with the tip of your weapon. In foil, you have a, something called a bell guard. So just protects pretty much your hand and knuckles from like just getting jabbed. But the bell guard in foil is smaller than that of sabre, or, not sabre, eppe. Because in epee, everything is target area, on the tip of your foot to top your head like everything is so you can also hit the hand. So having the actual a bigger guard kind of gives you an extra line of defense. Whereas in foil, you can only hit a torso in the back. And that way the blade is heavier, thicker, and a foil it's much more like malleable. So you can like, when I say back hits, you can actually like flick over the back of the blade will bend and then go, go back to its original shape completely fine. And in saber, the target area is everything above the hips, including arms and head and you hit with the side of the blade. So there's no tip like action in that one you just have to hit with it and the entire side so it's like more slashing, which is like to be honest, like the more typical version of like sword fighting in general. The reason why foil is just the torso is because it's like supposed to be like the art of protecting like your main organs. So that defensive line and like moving in and out is supposed to be supposed to be, like encapsulate, like capture that kind of mode of fencing. Sabre’s a lot quicker because you have to take like split decisions, very like instantaneously, pretty much and most of the time overtakes the decision from before the action like starts as like 100% confidence in it, most of the time they get the point. But it is hard if you're a spectator from the outside, you just see like, two fencers, just clashing at each other and one person gets the point or something like that, you’re like ah.

M: In foil and epee, you, so in foil, one person could only get a point at a time, same thing with sabre it just depends on right of way, who's got the attack or the defensive action. Referees, like sometimes it's subjective, but referees call those. In epee, both people if they both hit at the same time, they both get the point, there's no such thing as right of way. But they have a different thing that they have to like fight against, which is wanting to like just constantly block out the opponent. Whereas if I'm attacking, I don't have to worry about blocking you out, I just have to make sure I like pass your defense or your counter attack, for foil, but in epee while you're attacking, you also want to block them out. So that's something else you got to focus on. So the tempo in epee is much slower. Because there's a lot more like you have more time to make decisions, but you're also trying to like psych out your like opponent or like make them fall short, like just do the wrong action. And then foil, there’s more like there's, there's an element of slow and and fast, which depends on your style, your footwork, and like also the action and like where you are on the, so in French it’s called a piste, so what we call in English is a strip, the 14 meter metal strip, and you can't go outside of it pretty much it's a metre and a half, like the width of is a meter half and then 14 meters long. If you go out of it, on the ends, you lose a point, that goes for epee and foil and Sabre. And if you go on out from the sides, you have to go back a meter.

F: Gotcha. Well see, again, that is so much nuance that I would have never known because like yeah, from the outside looking in, it just looks like slashing poking, you know? Yeah, but okay, so how did you get into fencing and how does when you get into fencing, how do you decide which of the three types are what is what's called? Disciplines like, well, how did you decide which of the three disciplines that you were gonna do?

M: So I started off with, back in Houston, I joined my local YMCA, I did swimming. My parents, so both my parents were fencers before and they fenced for Egypt, which is why I also fence for Egypt. And I'll get into like when you choose and all that stuff, like which nationality and all later. But so like, my parents didn't want to force me into fencing, so I wouldn't like grow up and just hate the sport. Yeah, I don't know that. I think they learned from previous like, parents who forced the kids into sport, so they are just like, we're not gonna take that route. I did swimming, and to all the swimmers out there, sorry, that was just too boring for me. I was also abnormally short for my age. I was six at the time.

F: What is a short six-year-old?

M: Yeah, short, like abnormally short then and very scrawny. So I did soccer and I kept getting hurt. They played me out on the wing during that camp. And all I remember was just getting elbowed in the face every time I tried to run against someone. I did tennis, and basketball, basketball I kept jamming my fingers. I had the reflexes just straight just jabbing at the ball every time it came off the rim. So that was fun. And then through school, you know you do like, like PE activities just do like, a little bit of volleyball, a little bit of dodgeball like that's not real, like dodgeball isn't a real sport. It might be, I don't know how things work in the US. There's like sports for almost everything now. But yeah, I ended up, so the last thing I did was fencing. And I was like, well, like there's a lot of protection here so I can't really get hurt. Nowadays, you could still get hurt but like yeah, you just tough it out, move on. But like then you had less ridiculous amount of like protective equipment. So that to me is just like a, like, like the the light bulb just shined on my head. I'm like this is it. It doesn't matter how like, scrawny I am, there's no way that I can like get injured or anything, we’re good. And then my dad wanted to be my coach. So that's the reason why I chose foil because both my parents did foil, so they just instantly went to foil. They didn't think about epee or sabre at all. And since then, I mean 6, now I’m 20, my dad's been my coach every single day. So that’s the story!

F: I love that. That is a great story. Okay, and so we're gonna just jump all the way from fencing to the Olympics, and let's start, 2016, Rio Olympics. When, what was the process like of qualifying for that? And tell me about that moment when you, I guess you must have won some sort of tournament when you realize oh, “wow, like I am,” what were you 16 at the time?

M: 15, yes.

F: Wow. Okay, “I'm 15. And I'm going to be going to the Olympics,” just walk me through that moment.

M: Well, so qualifying for fencing for the Olympics is over a whole year. So it starts in May, so I'd say like the Olympics for Rio was 2016. So starting May 2015, and it would end in April 2016. Okay. So what you have to do is, usually what they do is, there's eight teams that can qualify. And from those eight teams, three consent, three individuals can fence the individual event, and then they add a fourth person to join the other three for a team event. And Egypt had qualified for team event. I was like in and out of the team that year. But the main tournament that kind of shifted things, I got third at a senior event in the U.S., U.S. like they call it NACs, so North American Cups. And that kind of gave me a lot of points for my ranking in Egypt because it’s an international tournament. So then I went and fenced all the national events, meddled in those as well. At the time the team was just, I think the oldest was 31, the youngest was 26. So me coming as a 15 year old obviously, they did not want me there. I felt the hostility for sure. I would, yeah, like me beating a couple of them at the national events, did not go well with them at all.

F: I can't imagine I wouldn't yeah, as a 31 year old losing to a 15 year old like what? What is going on?

M: So then they made this criteria because they so badly did not want me on the team. I don’t even know if I should be saying this,

F: No, this is why we come to Go With the Flo, we want the hot off the press inside scoop

M: So the previous Federations and stuff like the Federation now is great.

F: Yeah. Yeah, we love them.

M: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So they did this thing where they just, they sealed out all our points. So, so they automatically just told me, okay, you're not gonna offend individuals, like because you're too young, inexperienced. So the best you can do is teams, because I had rightfully earned at the time. So like, you can't be third. So first, second, third, in Egypt was already like chosen. They're all good fencers. And like they did relatively well on individuals, as well. So then, I was fencing off against this, like, 26 year old. So you go to these tournaments, and it's just whoever's better. So they gave me an extra criteria where I had to be better than him domestically and internationally. But the points can't be added together. So I went to the domestic events, and I literally beat him. So I'd say, okay, come on, like pretty obvious. Now, this is a March, so it's like the cutoff for names is like two weeks later. And then we had a World Cup in Cuba. And that was the last qualifying one for like, all the Olympics, like even for people of other nationalities. And so it's like, unheard of for like a youth like fencer to even make second day in like a senior event.

M: So like, second day is pretty much you fence, like a whole round of pools was like a kinda like a round robin system. And then, if you do super good, you get automatic like buy into the second day and second day is a top 64. And if you don't, then you have to fence off to 15 Touch about the round Robins or fives and then knockouts or 15 Touch bouts, and you got to fence off for that. I remember this moment vividly. In Cuba, I’m fencing this like Hercules of a dude, from France. He used to he used to come to camps back at my club. And he used to be the one like giving me pointers and like teaching me and stuff. So it was like he obviously saw me and he was, ah this little kid, this little baby to me, I’m going to mop the floor with him. I just listened to everything my dad said it just worked. Like my dad like literally had the key to everything for that match. He generally does, he’s is like a whiz at fencing to be honest. But yeah, we got through that night he got so mad.

F: I can imagine!

M: And he actually didn't fence another international tournament after that.

F: Wow! You really put the man out of business!

M: He was 25, like he still had years ago.

F: Not even like an old man, his ego was too bruised, losing to a 15 year old. I think we just said why, he lost a 15 year old who he used to teach. He's like if this kid beats me like that's it for me.

M: So yeah, I made second day and the other guy didn't. So we got back to Egypt. And then we made like, I just made my case. I was like, I better than them in domestically and internationally. Like, there's no way you can kick me out the team now like, I've rightfully on my spot. And they waited until May to tell me, they said they submitted a five man shortlist. Like, we're still debating between you and the other guy, for fourth. I was like, this is corruption at it’s finest. Like, I waited until May. And then they called me and they were like, yeah, okay, you made the team. Alright don't worry, so just show up to France, like on your own, because you're gonna meet with the rest of the team, and do trainings. And then you're gonna go back to Egypt, and then you're gonna go from there to Rio. So that's what we did. Our team at the time was pretty good. We had on my, my current team captain for Tokyo was also the team captain, then in Rio, and he got his silver medal in the individual in London. So he's going in with like, good form, and everything he just meddled in Cuba as well, he got second place in Cuba as well. So yeah, he was he was on good form. The third was kind of like, in and out of second days, pretty much. And then this, the second was pretty, he was like, just consistently, like, top 32, 64, 32, 64. But as team fencers they’re pretty good. Okay, so then, at the end of the day, I think we got 7th in teams, which isn't isn't the greatest because there were only eight teams. But as it it's hard to qualify anyways. So you qualify you get seven, you take what you can get. And individuals is a lot more people because there's those eight teams, three from those. And then there's individual qualifiers from the world ranking after you take off those qualified through team and then you have zonal qualification, so there's a lot more people. Well, I mean, that's a story about it!

F: Yeah, gotcha. And I love I love the whole, they try to keep you out. But you were too good. And they could, they couldn't do it.

M: Glad I was I was good. I'm glad, it would be a depressing story. If I was like, I should have made it, ehh but they kicked me out.

F: Yeah. And so even going to Rio. Can you just, because I've only heard about, I listen to this other podcast where this old, he was a wrestler and he spoke about the Olympic village and how there's just like, lots of restaurants, like big cafeterias, you just like get whatever food you want. Just like, what is it as someone who just like very much so outside looking at what even is the Olympic Village like? Were you just like bumping into KD and LeBron like, oh

M: Actually? Lowkey? Yes.

F: Wait woah okay

M: I don’t think LeBron was at Rio, but KD was.

F: Okay yeah, you’re right

M: KD was, and he was at Tokyo, I met him both times!

F: Okay, quick answer this question, because I actually had this question, who were you able to meet any who was like the are the coolest athletes so you got to bump into?

M: Bump into… what the entire team USA Basketball team? Zack Levine, Devin Booker, heavyweights in NBA You got it.

F: You got any pictures or no?

M: No, no. Okay, so I was in the opening ceremony and it was super dark as you walk through like a strip because there's no like audience so you just walk through a strip of like light pretty much in the middle and like all the hype is coming from all the other athletes. And then Team USA like they knew people were gonna bombard them. Yeah, they went straight into like the shadow area hung out with themselves and have a couple people like here and there that would just be like, hey! And then it just dipped out for like a minute. Not all Team USA just I think it was just a basketball team. Mostly other people stayed around. But yeah, I think other cool people that Luka Dončić,

F: You met Luka?

M: Yes, I saw him five times, it was insane! Yeah, he's very cool.

F: You met Luka five times? Dude.

M: He also carried Slovenia. So like,

F: Oh, yeah. They almost medalled, yeah, they lost in the semis by one point. He’s the future of the NBA, love Luka.

M: I met Naomi Osaka when we're getting our accreditation. Novak Djokovic, I also met him in Rio, I got pictures both times

F: I gotta see this pictures after, keep going, keep going.

M: Marc and Pau Gasol, yeah, a lot of basketball, I don’t know why, might have just been luck of the draw? But yeah those are most of the people and then like some people from Egypt who are like you know heavy weights in terms of sports.

F: Mo Salah did not, no they didn’t let him play

M: I really wish, I really wish

F: Yeah, Liverpool didn’t let himplay.

M: Yeah cuz I'ma huge fan of Liverpool, before before he signed

F: I’m a Man U [Manchester United] fan, so that's kind of tough

M: Some rivalry there! Although you guys have like strengthened a lot more...

F: Oh we got a squad now! We just got Ronaldo

M: That’s impossible, how did you get Ronaldo?

F: Well, that’s because he that was his OG club and he called Sir Alex Ferguson and he was like you're not going to City, you're coming over here and it was all said and done. Although we still need a defensive midfielder but that is a whole different story.

M: I think you've got a class starting 10!

F: True!

M: One guy who's like three stars out of five like ohh…

F: And so all those people you met were across both Rio and…

M: Well no so all the ones I mentioned were from Tokyo!

F: Okay, let's do Rio now, do Rio!

M: Rio... Michael Phelps.

F: Oh my god, yeah, keep going.

M: Yeah, this guy’s insane. His hands are like incredibly incredibly huge. But like super nice guy. Yeah. I think half of our team just went straight to him when we saw him at the ceremony and were like, “It’s the legend!”

F: Most decorated Olympian ever!

M: Yeah, I saw a couple runners, but at the time, I didn't know who they were.

F: So don't don't say you saw Usain Bolt.

M: Oh, I did! I actually did!

F: Of course you did!

M: He was wearing a hoodie, trying to hide from people, that didn't work out. My teammate who's almost his height. He's in saber. He saw him because he's like, his height so I don't know how, and he, he actually got a picture with him. And I was next to him. I didn't realize and he goes, yo that’s Usain Bolt! So I went, I saw him, and I was like, “Hey,” and he goes “Hi,” It's just he just, he just booked it, he started realizing people saw him, and this is in the cafeteria, he's like, “No I can’t eat here.”

M: I saw Andy Murray, and Nadal, he was his flagbearer so everyone saw. Andy Murray, we were entering the cafeteria dropping off our bags, and he was just there.

F: This is absurd. Which is another amazing thing about the Olympics is all the best athletes from all the sports all in one location so you're just able to interact with them.

M: It's super nice. And I say it's convenient for someone like me cuz fencing doesn't get like the clout some do for like basketball, tennis. Swimming even. But yeah, it's like obviously not convenient for them because you’ve got to go to trainings and stuff. But it's super super cool just being in that like environment like it does change you. Being in that environment for like three weeks even just makes you so professional and keeps you like on your life feet and it just helps with how you perform at the end of the day. It's like like, like you being here on Princeton like being around geniuses all the time. It makes you strive to want to be better and learn more and be one like, like responsible in terms of your academics like it changes how you are in general So yeah, it is, it's a pretty rare thing that happens every four years. Corona made it five years and the next ones in three years um but yeah it's it's pretty special and and like it's rare that you have all sports in one and all elite athletes from those sports in just one area.

F: Wow, that is that was insane. All the people you just said that you met there yeah, that is absurd. Okay, and so now back to the Olympics so even outside of your, when you're not practicing and performing obviously what is the day to day look like it's just like you're going around, practicing, eating?

M: What even do we did so obviously today we have to do a saliva test that we do here on campus once a week. That's fine, after a while you just get a routine of just how to produce saliva.Typically wake up. like either eight or nine in the morning, go eat breakfast. cafeteria in Rio was much bigger. There's also an indoor and outdoor one. Okay. So like the village is huge. Or like parks, recreation centers, tennis courts, basketball courts, soccer fields, like I would talk in like this is like a whole like city, pretty much. The Tokyo one was they, it seemed like they had a lot of spaces for like an expanded area but because of COVID they've shrunk us all to like one like mini Island. Yeah, it was like surrounded with like rivers and stuff. But it was pretty small. I walked around the entire place when I finished my events like 15 minutes. So everything that I had to see because it's just generally small, like lots of tall towers. They also had this rule where everyone had to go in three days before ish. Okay, and then leave two days after the last event, just so to prevent overcrowding. Yeah. But yeah, so yeah, you eat in the cafeteria is like two floors. It's never that full. It is always you know, good spacing. Also people from different cultures eat at different times.

F: So is it in do they Is it true that they and again, this everything based off of this other podcasts I listen to they try to have food from all over the world.

M: Yeah, they had, they had food for like, like Middle Eastern food, they had Asian, had Italian. And I mean, like mixed European food, it was just like, somewhat, some of the stations were the same every day. And some of them like switched up a couple of their plates here and there.

F: And was there a McDonald's?

M: There was none. Not this time. It wasn't really real. And it was usually really popular as idly for. I saw from day one, like before events started, like people would just munch on McDonald's. And I would know because our balcony oversaw where the McDonald's area was because there wasn't like a whole park. And there would just really a huge line, just like outside of it.

F: All these elite athletes, just like we want McDonald's before we win gold medals! Why not? I love that. They're just really you're all just regular people at the end of the day. Okay, so you've gone into a little bit of some of the differences between Rio and Tokyo, but what would you say was like the most, I mean, obviously COVID being over, hanging over the head of it, that would be the biggest thing that would have impacted how the experience was. But other than that, would you say that, and obviously no fans being there, Was there anything else that was really like a glaring change from your experience in Rio, this past year?

M: I think being the number one ranked in Egypt, okay. I was like, for sure gonna fence individual and team event. So fencing both of those events, and also having a much higher ranking than I was back as 15. It really changed my perspective, pretty much on the Olympics and my experience as well. Like, I had two events that I had to prep for, like mentally over the summer, and physically as well. Which kind of got ruined because I got Corona. Like a month before the Olympics was.

F: Whoa, so there was a chance you might not have been able to go?

M: Yeah, there was a slight chance. there was a huge chance where like, the Federation was thinking of like replacing me because,

F: They're out to get you!

M: Physically speaking, you can't recover, like from a month. So like, I was sick for two of those weeks. I had all the symptoms except for a fever, you don't train for like two weeks, it takes typically a month to get back to like tip top shape. Muscle memory is super important in fencing as well. So what really drove me through like, like the whole Olympics, and like getting quarterfinals and stuff was just literally just adrenaline and belief. And it's like mind over matter, really. I think having gone through COVID also, like, just a very like go with the flow.

F: Go shout out to the podcast, go with the flo!

M: Yes! It is what it is type of vibes. So I never really let stuff like just dragged me down type of thing.

F: I love that

M: Yeah, but you kind of have to with sports. So you always gonna have ups and downs. You can't, you can't let it like define you as a person.

F: And even just in life, too

M: Yeah, exactly. You got to believe in yourself. You got to trust your like training. And just go out there and just, it's cliche to say, but like, just enjoy it. Yeah, I just got there to do what you've been working on. And and don't doubt yourself just 100% confident. confidence in your actions. And your coach and what he sees. Obviously, my coach is my dad so I definitely trust him. But yeah, in general, yeah, just, yeah, you can't you can't do all the work that you've done and go through your negatives and like if you had Corona and stuff like that, you just can't go through all that. And then you just go there and just like, throw your towel and be like, I'm not gonna achieve anything here. Yeah, you might as well shoot for the shoot for the gold and see what happens. I had super high ambitions going in. And then after I got sick, I had no ambition. It's like, physically speaking, this is impossible. I did like EKGs and stuff. And yeah, the results were really bad, my recovery rate was abysmal. But yeah, like I said, mind over matter. I mean, I have this belief as a saying that I learned a long time ago we're training is 90% physical 10% mental, and competitions are 90% mental 10% physical. You can really overcome anything. I mean, all the guys that I fenced were like in tip top shape, I obviously don't know, their, like, their background before because stuff like this, you want to keep hidden from your opponent so they don't like play on it. Well,

F: So was this common knowledge that you had COVID?

M: No, I only like let people know, my teammates only let people know until after because it's like the same thing as like if you had a sprained ankle or like a surgery or something like that you don't want people knowing, because then they'll play on it. And they'll force you to like have to deal with the issue that you don't want to have to deal with. And that will change your game, and also change the way that they play. Like, you watch video, you watch tape, and you memorize and you do all your studies, if they just come out playing on one thing, or like everything, all that goes to waste. Yeah, it's more beneficial. And I tell people where I think like, I even shocked, like all my teammates, how much I was just up and down the strip, just like, bad man. I was just giving it my all really, because I knew like my technique was there for sure, like muscle memory, again, like been fencing for 14 years. So two weeks now, as you're still remember how to, you have your catalogue of like, actions that you can do and all that. But yeah, like, I mean, with any sport if you're not physically fit. Technique just flies out the window.

F: Yeah, I'm not nothing close to an Olympic athlete. Not even close, trackstar middle school, okay, in basketball and soccer in high school. But yeah, definitely, definitely I still applies for. And so back to the, real quick, the uncertainty about the Tokyo Olympics in general. Was there ever a point where you thought that you first of all, explain how you felt when you first heard was getting postponed? And did you ever think that there was going to be a point where they were just going to cancel the Olympics?

M: Yeah. So I qualified February 2019. So I was like, you know, like, you qualify, you’re going to the Olympics, right. So now I can shift my like mentality to like, actually competing in like, six months, or actually four months. And then March was the last qualifying event for fencing. And I flew all the way over to California, because that's where the event was. And then the day of the tournament, they cancelled it because of Corona and everything. So I flew all the way back before like Trump did the bat travel ban. And it wasn't clear like, afterwards, I realized I could have left whenever, just leave the country, but it wasn't clear, then. Our Federation was like, “You've got to get back before Friday, come on!”. So yeah, that kind of was a bummer. But everyone was like, like, it's just like, like a bad version of the flu or something like it'll go in a month or two. Clearly that did not happen. And then we went into April thinking like maybe by, like, alternatives will just be canceled, like the rest of the season, even post qualifying. And then we'll just go straight to the Olympics. And they told us in May think, beginning of May or something like the International Federation was like the Olympics is officially postponed until next summer. So that I instantly knew like, I'm not taking a gap year like, I'm already qualified. I'm just gonna go back to school. And at the time, like Princeton was also like, they were like, we could do like in person slash online. And I like, they just revoked that like last second, that was rough.

M: I didn't mind staying at home with my parents I mean, is completely fine. Home cooked meals, you don't gotta walk to the dining hall, yeah, everything is just close by. But yeah, I'd say it's kind of a bummer. Having to wait a whole year, and then always hearing like rumors that the Japanese probably was 80% of them didn’t want the Olympics, they were willing to pay more taxes to cover the cost of the Olympics, which is absurd. Like, they really did not want this to happen. And it would be like, every other month, they go into like a state of emergency. So it was like it was definitely looking like it was just not gonna happen. And like a year is just wasted. I don't really think wasted, yeah, you grow as a person, but yeah, I mean, at least at least athletically speaking just wasted. Yeah, so I think until it's also hard to practice super hard to pack because you want to do a preseason, you want to do an in season training you want to work on like the weaker parts of your like body that like got weaker over the breaks and stuff like that. I literally took three months off like three, four months off, just to like, because, before that I hadn't taken any time off at all for like three years straight. Because you kind of can't for the Olympics, you take like a month off and it's like, you kind of jeopardizing your position pretty much in terms of rankings and stuff. But also our season is from November to July, but then you get like half of August off and you got to preseason again anyways. But yeah, I think it was, I think it was at first three months that like it was it was clutch because I could actually just be a pure student for like college. It so helped, just being there every single day for class. I think it was after winter break, where I started picking up training again. But it was like super light like three or four times a week as opposed to six. And then there was word that there might be the last qualifying event had to take place so we could like officially finish off like all the other people start the qualify. And they moved it from Anaheim, because the US was not in a state to host anything to Doha in Qatar. And I was pretty neat. Like I also made second day that tournament. It was held in March. So I had like three months of good training which is fine. Obviously not tip top shape, no one kind of was, I've been rusty for almost for a year, actually at that point. And then they cancel all the other tournaments out there. So like, okay, back to normal. And they were like the Olympics is definitely happening. Like I think, by the end of May. So as soon as like semester ended mid May. I like kind of knew, okay, like now we can do camps and stuff. So our Federation plant camps, I did a camp in Egypt. Obviously, as I got Coronavirus, I was like, I didn't really do a camp in Egypt. I recovered for like, half a week of my own training, like, my own like what the physical trainers and everything just to like, recuperate as much as I could. They also did not want to test me because they were worried that if it was that bad, I would just be demoralized. Yeah. So they were like, it's better if you don't know what your current condition is. And which kind of a huge risk. Yeah, well, you know, I'm here, I’m alive.

F: Hey yeah, go with the flow, that’s it

M: It is what it is, and then we went to Russia. And did a camp there for a week and a half with their Olympic team. And then we went to Japan for a week and a half as well, just get like, used to the weather, the humidity, time change. We also had to do a mini quarantine, if we wanted to be one of the first teams into the village. And then we moved into the village on the 20th, opening ceremonies 23rd, I fenced 26th and the first of August, so yeah, I mean, that's the progression of how it went from being postponed to potentially canceled to happening.

F: So it's nice again, a few more quick questions. First about the, those cardboard beds were a huge story. Could you tell me how comfortable those were and where they actually feasible to sleep on?

M: Yeah, it's very comfortable. Also, all the stories that were related to it's completely false. I learned a year before the original day that they were trying to be as sustainable as possible. So they made all the walls out of like clay and drywall so they could just chip it away and just reuse the clay. They had like installed portable bathrooms and showers. I think the tables were made out of sustainable materials while the cardboard obviously you can recycle that. Yeah, it was it was comfortable only because, as an engineer, I so just want to analyze the way that this bed was made. I literally, the first day I was there, and I was like so intrigued, so I took off the mattress and I just stared at it. And I was like, this is so genius. I’m not going to get into the details, but yeah, I was just there having like a mini geek moment. They like origami file them all the cardboard together and they use pretty thick cardboard. It was really sturdy. Like I genuinely tried to break it. I could have almost dislocated my shoulder trying so, because I full on ran into it and just bounced off!

F: I would just love to see the videos of you just in your room by yourself like okay, let me try to mess this thing up.

M: I also had a roommate, and we were both trying it!

F: Because when that came out the reason they would think it was like oh, to prevent the athletes from having sex. But I was like, if you look at …

M: Absolutely not! That’s the falsest rumor I’ve ever heard

F: Yeah, yeah. And I was like, first of all, if you look at like a gymnast who you probably three of them probably weigh the same as like, like a heavyweight rower. So, it just didn't make any sense.

M: So, obviously if you make a bad Like I'd say, you're on it and you have some of your equipment or stuff. Then it will break. And they’re obviously not trying to make things that inconvenient

F: Yeah, okay, so good good to know the beds are actually very sturdy

M: Yeah, they were comfortable because the mattresses they were like, they did this like zip up mattress or they had three cushions in it, and you flip them around kind of TempurPedic stuff. And you just had different levels of like, like hard, soft, medium that you could use. So you just customize it like, like they had like a whole like thing plastered onto the the back of the bed, explaining how to use the bed!

F: Oh, one more question real quick. Was your roommate, just one of your teammates?

M: Yeah, he was the other guy from, he goes to Penn State, the other college guy.

F: Gotcha. And then the other questions, you over the course of this podcast that we've done like an hour and five minutes now, you probably mentioned like 15 countries at least that you've traveled to. Yeah, so very well traveled man. Where would you say it's probably been the favorite place that you've traveled to for fencing; do for fencing then after do just like in your general travels

M: For fencing Tokyo, because we have a World Cup, oh should I list the World Cups?

F: Yes, please. I want to know I want to know what you've been. I also want to see your passport, well stamped!

M: Okay, so the junior circuit is different. I won’t do that because I'm done with juniors now. But the senior circuit is great. Like they treat us so well. First one is in Bonn, Germany. Second one is Tokyo. Third one is Paris. Fourth one is Torino. I think in English they name it, Turin.

F: Okay. That's Italy. Right?

M: Yeah. Then the next one is Egypt. Homeland competition. And then one after that is typically in the US, they usually do in California, between San Jose Anaheim and San Francisco, or LA as well. And you have a break for April because that's when jr worlds are. And then in May we have St. Petersburg and Shanghai.

F: Gotcha. Whoa.

M: Quite the location, quite the circuit.

F: Almost as close to the F1 circuit!

M: Yeah, yeah. Don't get me started.

F: I might get you back on here to talk about f1 gotcha! Okay. Yeah. Cool. So we've already done this great, great first episode of season by the way an hour and seven minutes in.

M: How long are like episodes typically?

F: This is shaping up to be the longest I've done, I think the longest I've been like an hour 10

M: This has definitely not felt like an hour.

F: I agree with you. Yeah, that's which is what I love so much about this, we could probably go for another hour, but I know you have stuff to get to, I have stuff to get to, so we will get to the tiger confession section, which if you don't know I started doing this like from episode like three or four last year, I would just go on Tiger Confessions, scroll through find questions that people asked about whatever just posts people make. And I'll just read it out loud, we talk about it, answer the question. So I have two here. One as you can already actually know, I'll read it out. Anyway, first one says: Freshmen here, really overwhelmed by the party culture here. Will this be the main way of socializing at Princeton for all four years? Let's you go first, guests always answer first.

M: I instinctively want to say no. As a freshman, I made a bunch of friends. I didn't go to, I only went to one party because that was an alum banquet. Pretty much. I also like I did not have the time I had to stress that I was all over the place. Like physically, not mentally. Yeah. I also was mentally, I had so much to take care of. But yeah, now you can definitely make friends freshman year. And I think that I'll just continue on. Like you don't have to go to parties all the time to make friends. If you're on a team as well, I don't know if this freshman is on a team, if you're on a team you're pretty much set for like networking, pretty much. I mean, your friends have friends or teammates have other friends. You'll get to know a lot of people. So yeah, and also I feel like the student athlete like connection is pretty, pretty tight ish. Like, we just we see another student athlete, we're like, hey, yeah!

F: You should listen to my episode from last season, Revenge of the Narps with my friend from the lacrosse team. One of my favorite episodes from last season. But yeah, basically, like you said, definitely the party culture here and the eating clubs are not the only way to socialize. Yeah, and to be honest, even like partying, at the eating clubs and even like over the summer this year when you go out to party that isn't really like any type of substantial socializing. I don't know how many great friends I'm meeting on nights out. All my friends I’m meeting in classes, in dorms, at events at different things. So I wouldn't be stressed which again should help you because the evening clubs aren't open to everybody yet. There's many other ways that you're going to meet great people and form substantial relationships, in the dining hall, met people in the dining hall met people on OA, CA. So to answer your short answer, no, the only way to socialize isn't at the party culture. And you probably it's like a very shallow type of connection, which is not unique to Princeton. I just think that's how it is when you go out. I'm not going out trying to be like my, like, a best friend, like my wife or something like that. I'm just going out to have a good time. So don't stress about not, if you don't love the party culture here. It's okay. You'll be able to meet great people ever ask us like we said earlier, there's so much to do that you should take advantage of.

M: Yeah, you'll have classes. You'll have clubs as well.

F: Yeah. Oh, yeah, clubs. Join clubs, join a club, or two or three, meet people!

M: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And then like, like I said, those people will know people. Yeah. Yeah. You're set. You're set. Yeah. These freshman should not worry.

F: Don't stress. And then second one, so this one says: kind of ridiculous that frosh party like sardines the first day without COVID testing results and without mask when we got disciplinary probation and kicked off campus. And I'm just going to guess this is a 2024. Because woo they are salty on Tiger Confessions. They feel they feel very hated and like the university did not love them. But what is your reaction to that?

M: I mean, why are they saying like, first day there were parties and like they still hadn't been tested?

F: Yeah, compared to how last semester was just it was, I don't know how they got the last semester, that was trash.

M: Yeah, that is kind of risky. I won't lie. Everyone's coming from like different states and stuff. Do you have to get tested when you're like crossing states?

F: Crossing states? No. I know, everyone had to get tested. Like when right when we moved back to campus? But yeah, crossing the states I don't think so

M: I think for international students didn't have to worry about that. Because we got tested way too many times to get into the US. And I take that domestically, because there's no like travel ban on stuff like probably was a huge risk. I've just also like the mask mandates pretty loose around here. Especially if you're already outside you outside. I do free air. But yeah, inside, it's like, are you in your dorm? Do you have people over? Are you in a common room? Are you in a class? All these different rules for all these different things. So you can't expect anyone to read all the emails we get as well.

F: Yeah, if you if you think the mask mandate is bad now, you should have seen the spring semester, the stupid f*cking social contract. Oh, my go. The fact that we... I'll get into that we Yeah. Yeah, that it was bad in the spring. Yeah. But in response to this, I will just say, I see where you're coming from. But at the same time, I understand it. If everyone's been looking forward to coming back and seeing everybody, we're all back on our friends. So it's a college campus, people are going to party. There's, I think by like, two weeks goes 99% of students have been vaccinated. And yes, there will be breakthrough cases. So it is risky, but also not terribly risky at this point a week. And I think the infection rate is very low. I don't want to say a number because I don't want to be wrong, but it's very, very low. So this is a probably a salty, sophomore. I'm sorry, your freshman year was so trash. I'm sorry, you're a freshman again, basically, but things are going to get better. I understand it. And I bet you if you're in the same position as the freshmen, you would have been doing the exact same thing. So, that's that's all I got to say that. But this we've now done an hour and 13 minutes. I think this takes a record for longest podcast. It has been a great episode!

M: Let’s go, great. start to the season!

F: Great start Mo, thank you for coming on the podcast — any final words for the people?

M: Ah, have a good year. Enjoy yourself, yeah, just stay focused, but don't take life too seriously.

F: Exactly—

M: Go with the flow!

F: I was about to say, to put that succinctly, go with the flow, but he took the words out of right out of my mouth. But yeah, that has been another episode of Go With the Flo. Thank you all for listening.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai